Why have one podcast host when you can have three? In this episode, Mighty host Ashley talks with Kat and Skye, the co-hosts of our new sister podcast Health & (un)Wellness, about their experience living with migraine. Learn more about each of their migraine stories as well as what the neurological disease has stolen from (and given to) them. They will also give an inside scoop about the first season of Health & (un)Wellness, which centers an unfiltered deep dive on what it means to live with migraine; from work to home, mental health to misconceptions. Get a preview of the season’s incredible roster of guests, and find out what oddities Kat and Skye each have stashed in their purses right now!

 

You can also listen on our Spotify for Podcasters page and on Apple Podcasts.

 

Episode Transcript:

Ashley Kristoff 

Welcome to The Mighty Podcast, where we infuse the health space with positivity, humor, and vulnerability. The Mighty is a safe and supportive community here to help you find the people and information you need to navigate your health journey. We’re so excited to spend some time together today. Now, let’s get into what the health we’re talking about.

This episode of The Mighty Podcast is a special one because today we have Kat Harrison and Skye Gailing here who are Mighty staffers and also co-host the first season of our sister podcast, Health & (un)Wellness. The season is called Mighty With Migraine. So, in the spirit of this new series, and because June is National Migraine and Headache Awareness Month, we wanted to bring them on to talk all things migraine. We’ll talk a little bit more about the season itself later in the episode, but to kick things off, let’s do some introductions. Kat, let’s start with you and we’ll go right to Skye after.

Kat Harrison 

Well first, can I say how exciting it is to be a guest on this podcast and not the host? I feel like I’m on vacation. This is great. I am Kat Harrison. I am a senior community staffer here at The Mighty. I’m also a migraine and chronic illness advocate on my own time, and a children’s author of the picture book “Migraine and Mia,” which is probably, you know, the best one for this conversation. But I also wrote a book called “Surgery on Sunday.” Fun facts about me: I love tacos. I love headbands. If I could do nothing but get paid to read books, I would be very, very happy.

Skye Gailing 

It’s hard to follow up after Kat, but yeah, thanks for having us here. So excited to be a guest on the podcast, been a fan since before I started working at The Mighty — so I really feel like I’ve made it, this is my big break right now.

I’m Skye Gailing. I’m the editorial and community associate here. So that really means I write things, I talk to people online, I program things when I’m not managing my health care; which includes you know, managing chronic migraine. I like to read, do crossword puzzles, and play video games, which isn’t conducive to migraine. I listen to a lot of podcasts. So that’s why I’m hoping, you know, this starts and I can just do the rounds. My favorite thing though is to lounge around outside with my dog, Pip. That’s me.

Ashley Kristoff 

I like that you say you are honored to be here. And I’m like, this is just exciting for all of us, I’m having a great time. I’m happy to have you here, you’re happy — it’s gonna be a great episode. Before we dive into the world of migraine, which we’re recording for however many minutes today but we have how many hours of content about migraine now… and I know you still have a wealth of information in there that we haven’t even tapped yet. But before we do that, I wanted to ask an icebreaker question to get us into things. So, what is the wildest, weirdest, funniest thing that you have in a bag or a purse that you typically leave the house with?

Kat Harrison 

Right now, it is a dermatology brochure from a practice that is in the same building as another one of my doctors, and it’s very large. And I keep it in my purse as a reminder that one day, I will get up the courage and the energy to call and schedule an appointment. But I just keep it in there. I refuse to put it on my desk, I refuse to put up on my calendar, just straight up tucked inside my wallet. And every time I go to pay for something I’m like, “Oh schedule that appointment!” Nope, hasn’t happened yet.

Ashley Kristoff 

How long has that been sitting in your bag?

Kat Harrison 

Um, five months.

Ashley Kristoff 

I don’t feel like that strategy is working for you. But I’m rooting for you.

Kat Harrison 

Thank you so much. I like to pretend it’s working and I’m living in great denial. I’m proud of myself for even picking up the brochure. Skye knows this about me but I really, really struggle with preventive health care. I just feel like I’m constantly reacting, like this morning I had an appointment with my headache specialist. I had to do that one. I don’t have a choice, but dermatology? Eh, I’m not dying. I’ll get to it when I get to it. What about you, Skye?

Skye Gailing 

Oh, that reminds me I have to schedule my next routine skin check. My thing is also an aspirational piece of paper. I found in my wallet the other day — which, my wallet has a bunch of Nancy Drew quotes on it. Something about me: I really aspire to be a cool, adventurous detective. I’m not there yet. But speaking of adventure in my wallet… I found two expired REI coupons. I want to be in the outdoors a lot — my body does not want me to be, though. Like I’ve never been camping. I would love to go. I once stayed on a cot in a cabin… that was as close as I got. I have expired coupons from March. Well, that’s when they expired. I don’t know when they’re from. Maybe one day I’ll become Paul Bunyan. Today is not that day, though.

Ashley Kristoff 

It sounds like you’ve roughly had those coupons… also five months, if it was March and it’s June now.

Skye Gailing 

Probably.

Kat Harrison 

Skye, this is why we have a podcast together, because we’re just absolute hot messes.

Skye Gailing 

Yeah, I want to be outside. Last time I spent time in grass, though, my entire like arm turned red and got really itchy so maybe one day…

Kat Harrison 

Incredible.

Ashley Kristoff 

Love it. For me, I was actually looking through my bag because even though I had thought about this question, I hadn’t actually gone like into my bag to see what was there. And I think the thing that I have, which I honestly forgot I had in there, was in my wallet in the coin pouch. Since I seldom use cash or have change, I barely go into that zipper. I found a seashell that I got like probably nine years ago at this point. It was when I used to go to the Ren Faire before I had moved across the country a few times. And at the fair, a girl ran up to me and told me she liked my outfit and gave me this seashell with a little rune painted on it, which I don’t know what the rune means at all. Probably should look that up at some point… it’s only been nine years. But I’ve always kind of kept it on me because it was one of those, just like, I don’t think she knew that she was making my day. But she did. And whenever I look at that, it just kind of reminds me of, you know, sometimes you feel cynical around the world — with people, with circumstances, with situations. But like, knowing that this was an interaction that never had to happen and it did and it made me feel good. Just reminds me that there are good moments that can kind of happen unexpectedly.

Kat Harrison 

I love how your item is like such a thoughtful [one], with a good memory behind it. Skye and I were over here with brochures and expired coupons, baby.

Skye Gailing 

That’s such a beautiful story. Oh my gosh.

Ashley Kristoff 

To be fair, I’m also the kind of person who seldom tries to carry a bag or a purse. I do not like having a lot of things on me, and I try to be very minimalist when I do. So most of the time, the weird things that I have only exist in it for about 24 hours, because I usually empty it out so that it stays light and stays empty. So that’s the closest thing I have. But there has been…

Kat Harrison 

#Goals. You clean it out regularly. Wow, what’s that like?

Ashley Kristoff 

I just get really frustrated. And it usually, I mean, to be fair, the cleaning out regularly means that there’s a pile next to my bed of things that I need to deal with. Because they went in my purse the once and then I didn’t bother to do anything else with them. But they’re not in my purse anymore, which is the main thing.

Skye Gailing 

See, my tip is if you just don’t leave the house, you don’t have to worry about that. That’s where I’m at.

Ashley Kristoff 

That’s so true. You know, relatable goals, right there. Speaking about reality, let us dive into all things migraine now. I know that is reality for both of you very much. Less so for me, my extent of experience with migraine was getting a handful through puberty. I do have the experience, but it has been a very long time for me. So I don’t want to be the person to explain “what is migraine?” for anyone who doesn’t know.

Skye Gailing 

All right, well, contrary to what some people might think… it’s not just a headache. It’s a whole neurologic disease. It can be a debilitating disorder. Interesting thing is, even though like over 1 billion people live with migraine worldwide, nobody’s really clear on like, hey, well, we know that it could be an excess of like this type of neurotransmitter firing. That’s part of it. But why does the vascular… why do our veins dilate? Why do all these things happen? So, it’s kind of a confusing disorder that causes a lot of like, honestly, body-wide symptoms, you know, aside from the head pain, and not everybody gets head pain with migraine, right? But it can cause everything from nausea to vision distortion to vision loss… it’s a big one.

Kat Harrison 

We learned a couple of stats while recording the podcast: one in four households has migraine in it, one billion people globally live with it. It’s wildly common and fun fact, we didn’t have migraine-specific medications until 2018, which I think just paints a very clear picture of like why it’s still so prevalent and why treatment is still very hard. I think the other thing to acknowledge — because it’s new for a lot of people that don’t know a lot about migraine — is that you notice when we’re all saying it, we’re all saying it in the singular. It is kind of a hard language change to make when I feel like colloquially “migraines” is so prevalent, but I actually, Skye, saw a great graphic yesterday. I should have sent it to you. And it basically took a bunch of conditions, [and said], “We don’t say ‘epilepsies,’ we say ‘epilepsy.’ We don’t say ‘asthmas.’ we say “asthma.”’ Exact same thing with migraine. And I think changing our language not only helps the person who lives with it to take it more seriously, to acknowledge that it is an actual disease, but allows the people around them to recognize that as well.

Ashley Kristoff 

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Because I feel like, from my perspective, especially being someone who has been on the outside of it for you know, really up until we started developing this podcast in a lot of ways… I always had that perception of migraine is a symptom. And so when you would get “migraines,” it was like “yeah, cuz I’m experiencing this symptom.” But obviously now after learning a lot from you two, and just kind of being around the internet a little bit more, really learning that difference has kind of been a huge game-changer in how do I think about it as well. But speaking to all of the fun things behind what it actually is, I would love [for you two to] give an overview of how you experience migraine. You talked about how it is just a very big condition. It has a lot of potential areas in which it can impact. So, what does your personal background or experience look like with migraine?

Skye Gailing 

My first migraine attack happened when I was 13. Started with vision loss, like vision distortion. All of a sudden, I couldn’t see anything, and then you know, bam, my head was in the worst pain I’ve ever experienced. Well, at that point at least… I’ve experienced much worse now. But yeah, I’ve been living with migraine for over half my life now officially, which is wild to think about. I started, it would be considered episodic, meaning that I was experiencing 14 or fewer headache days per month — but then it gradually became chronic. So I experienced, you know, 15-plus headache days per month, and at least eight of those days also involve other migraine symptoms or migraine features. Mine now involve nausea, I used to go through periods where I’d experience like vertigo as part of an aura beforehand. Some people get an aura, which can involve like a visual disturbance, or you can smell something that’s not really there, sometimes people get like auditory auras and stuff like that. Currently, where I’m at in my treatment journey is waiting to go see a headache specialist after being referred by my neurologist because we’re at that point where I gotta try something new. I’ve been on a lot of, you know, the different abortive and preventive medications. So, we’ve got to see what else is out there.

Kat Harrison 

I’m so excited for you Skye, not that I’m thriving with migraine any more than you, but when I made the switch from general neurology to headache specialists, it has made all the difference I think. If nothing else, and like the rapport I have with them, because they speak headaches. It’s what they do. For a lot of people out there, you don’t realize that neurologists, they treat such a wide variety, right? They treat MS, they treat seizures. We actually found out when we were recording the season, the amount of headache and migraine education that neurologists get… it’s real small, everyone — it’s like a matter of hours of instruction. So, you can imagine when you go to them, and you’re like, “Here are all these weird things, can you put them together?” It can be a little bit hard. But in terms of my migraine experience, it’s similar to Skye’s in the sense that I was 15. So, around those teenage years. Mine is very different, in that something medically happened to me to cause chronic migraine, which is why mine is near impossible to treat at times. I was poisoned by an IV antibiotic when I was 15 after I had a bacterial infection in my ear, and my skull, and my brain. It caused me to have something called bilateral vestibular loss, which means I do not have a balance system anymore. And a symptom of that is called oscillopsia, which means everything is constantly bouncing. And as you can imagine, everyone — one, not very fun. Two, everything is constantly bouncing, your brain is having to work so much harder. And because it’s working so much harder, I’ve had a migraine every day since. So it’s been 20 years since I’ve had any type of relief, which is a lot.

Ashley Kristoff 

Yeah, that definitely is not a small number to consider. I did want to, you know, speak to that doctor component. I think it’s really interesting, because I remember when I was going through everything with my thyroid, and I needed to find an endocrinologist and I actually remember being told the advice of like, look into your endocrinologist because they treat a handful of different conditions. And a lot of them, at least in my local area, were really focused in on diabetes management. The recommendations that I got were for endocrinologists that specialized more in the thyroid-related disorders. So I can definitely see… I don’t think there’s a specialist to the extent that a headache specialist would be in relation to my field, but it’s really interesting that that kind of same crossover happens among different chronic illnesses like these. So, I’d be curious to know your experience with migraine for both of you as, like I said, not been a small amount of time. So how has your personal relationship with migraine changed over this, what, 14 years for you this Skye? 20-ish years for you, Kat?

Skye Gailing 

Yeah, I think some of the biggest change is like, yes, my symptoms have changed. Yes, the type of migraine I live with has changed. But I think the biggest thing has been the mental/emotional side of things. Even thinking about like a headache specialist versus a neurologist. I didn’t even know a headache specialist existed until I met Kat. And at that time, I’d have 20 days out of the month, I’d have some sort of head pain. And I was like, “Yeah, I get migraines. Sometimes.” I was not taking it seriously. And I mean, I found my neurologist because I was working on treating a different chronic illness of mine. And I was like, “Yeah, that’s the one I really need to focus on. Because like so many people have migraine. Everybody can treat migraine.” No, they can’t. But yeah, so I think my relationship has changed, and I definitely take it more seriously. I think I’ve maybe become a bit more bitter, especially recently.

Kat Harrison 

The bitterness is so real.

Ashley Kristoff 

I’m really curious — before we go into Kat — do you feel like there are times in your life where you’ve thought about migraine more or less by its impact being maybe more persistent overall?

Skye Gailing 

Oh, absolutely. Oh my gosh, yeah. I’m like, “Oh, well, which chronic illness is giving me… like the most annoying at this point?” Oh, that’s something to think about all right. Migraine is kind of the condition that I try to like, bargain about with the universe. I’m like, “Alright, hey, universe. I’ll keep my POTS. I’ll keep my Ehlers-Danlos. I’ll keep my bipolar. What if you just take migraine?” That’s where I’m at right now. But yeah, there have definitely been times where I’m like, migraine. I know it, I live with it. I’ve been living with it since I was a teenager, it’s fine. Even though I have lived with migraine for as long as I have, there are definitely times where it becomes more of a nuisance in my life than my other conditions. It really depends on what’s bothering me at a given time. And I think what’s currently upsetting me the most about migraine is that it has been so long, I have tried so much. And I think it’s like the more I learn about migraine, and the more I see the data of how common it is, the more frustrated I get that we don’t have better answers.

Kat Harrison 

It’s wild to me that we’re so far behind. Having migraine-specific medications, it’s groundbreaking, right? And there seems to be more money backing migraine research more than ever before. But I want to move faster. Like this is not a rare subset, I have a rare disease, you have a rare disease, Skye. And I expect that to lag behind, to expect that to be the caboose. But I will say mine is somewhat similar, Skye. I think part of it is just getting older. Like you get older, it’s harder to deal with things, you have more responsibilities, your body isn’t necessarily working as well as it used to. Over the past 10 years or so, from living in absolute denial that I have a disease that I need to structure my life around, to actually accepting it. And I don’t love to accept it. But I think as soon as I realized, like, “I have this. It permeates every single facet of my life. I need to make major changes.” I’m much mentally happier now that I just kind of acknowledged it. And that’s been really key for me, I just have a very intense sadness, especially right now just about everything migraine has taken from me. And I feel like the pandemic has really highlighted that for some reason, when I’ve been hearing other people talk about illness in a way they never had before. And now everyone’s like, you know, not talking about health as much anymore. And I’m like, “but I live this every day.” So that’s been kind of hard. I really liked that question, Ashley. It’s a good one.

Ashley Kristoff 

Yeah, I also think it is an amazing thing how much acknowledgement can really help you – it’s really in any condition — because like once you go, “OK, this is what I’m dealing with. I need to do and deal with this thing. It is not just like something I can brush off.” I feel like I’ve heard this across so many conditions, it always strikes me how impactful that is. Because I feel like especially when we’re talking about a condition like migraine, where there is a lot of like physical symptoms related to it. Sometimes it can be hard to think about how much just the mental aspect from that perspective is impactful. But we know it is really impactful. So, kind of a bit of a harder question. But you know, what has migraine stolen from you and taken from you over the years?

Kat Harrison 

As Skye and I become the human-like version of the grimacing emoji. I saw us both go “uhhh.” Skye, you go first.

Skye Gailing 

Yeah, I mean, aside from the sheer dollar amount I have spent on this condition in terms of seeing specialists or treatments or anything. It’s a lot of money that you know, I honestly get bitter when I’m like, “Well, how can all these other people my age… they get to go on vacation, they get to get married, they get to do whatever and I’m like, well, here I am at my parents’ house having to like go into medical debt because of migraine.” And so, it’s kind of wild to get a receipt of everything migraine has taken from me. And it’s also yeah, only been in the last year that I’ve treated that condition like as this serious like actual chronic illness it is because I used to be very like “yeah, I get migraines.” So now I’m like, “Oh, wait a second, I live with migraine.” There’s still that even though it has been like 13-plus years, there is still that grieving process that comes up every now and again, especially if a new symptom comes up. So I’d say yeah, besides money, I definitely feel like I’ve missed out on a lot of experiences, potential positive relationships or trying new things, going on adventures. It’s hard to even imagine life without it. So I’m like, I don’t even know what else I’m missing.

Ashley Kristoff 

You made me think of a not super fun game, but a fun game of how much money conditions have cost you each.

Kat Harrison 

That would actually be really fascinating to ask our community based on condition. Absolutely by far this is my most expensive condition. My oscillopsia, my bilateral vestibular loss. They’re just a thing. I don’t see doctors for them anymore. It’s just something I’ve had to work my way around, but migraine, like just take my wallet. Might as well link my bank account to my insurance company because it is costly, everyone.

Ashley Kristoff 

So what about you, Kat? What has migraine stolen from you?

Kat Harrison 

I’d like to say that migraine is the thief of fun. Travel, having an actual social life. I have friends who live relatively close to me that I haven’t seen in years. And that is not about you know, we’ve talked, but that has nothing to do with them not reaching out and has nothing to do with me not being responsive. It’s just, the cost of what it would be to have one social outing sometimes, when you work full time, to be quite frank — I can’t pay the cost right now. And then for me, the thing I’ve been grappling with most for about five years now, is it’s taken my ability to have a family away from me. And it’s been the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make in my life. You know, we didn’t really get to talk about this much in the season, Skye. What a tough choice. And it’s not necessarily an “I can’t actually physically do it.” It’s, “Do I have the ability to give a child the amount of love and respect and time it deserves when I literally can barely survive myself?” I’ve made the decision is that I don’t find it fair. Don’t find it fair for myself, don’t find it fair to someone else. A lot of people don’t have to even take that into account, and it’s very, very tough to wrestle with.

Ashley Kristoff 

For sure. And, you know, I think it just… it speaks to the fact that, migraine isn’t a symptom, right? It’s much more than that. It is impactful in more ways than, you know the “it’s just a headache,” where I think folks kind of start and stop with that thought right now. Kind of speaking to the other side, what has it given you in life? What are the ways in which it has grown or benefited your life in some way?

Kat Harrison 

I think for me, the biggest one is community for sure. Like until I started contributing to The Mighty — and I wrote for The Mighty about a year before I actually came on staff — like, I knew no one with chronic illness. And so, the fact that my life has been so incredibly enriched by people who, not necessarily with migraine, but with a bunch of other conditions like the two people in this recording studio with me… what a game-changer that’s been for me. The other part is it really has reignited my creativity for writing. Being able to write my books, the way in which I write narratives, the way in which I write stories, all comes from a place of deep physical hurt. And that really, really drives me to create. And I’m not sure that would have happened, if life was not such a slog. As Skye would say.

Skye Gailing 

This is where I come in, like, my bah humbug because I’m like, “Yeah, no, like the migraine community… I really value it of course, it’s amazing to be able to talk to people who get it,” but also like, I don’t know, I could do without migraine. I think that’d be fine. I’d be fine, like I could have learned empathy a different way. Well, let’s just take migraine out of the equation, I got like five other chronic, physical illnesses. And then I also got mental illness… I would have learned a lot of life lessons no matter what. I feel like migraine hasn’t been generous to me, and I’m just sitting with that I had to learn to be OK with that.

Ashley Kristoff 

I think that’s more than fine. It’s OK. We don’t have to find the light at [the end of] every tunnel. It’s really nice when we can, but that’s also not a realistic way for some people and for some moments in our life. So I think it’s really fair that you’re in that place. And that’s one of those things that maybe is not true in five years, and maybe it is, and it’s OK either way. But I am curious, if there’s something that you are most proud of accomplishing with migraine.

Kat Harrison 

I would say I have two things. So one, I did my undergrad degree at NYU… it was grueling. But it was so fundamental for my belief in myself — I’m so proud I was able to do that degree and in the amount of time I was hoping to do it in. You have to do an oral thesis at the end for the school that I was a part of, of NYU, and you had to defend 35 different types of texts that all fit within one, basically one thesis statement, but it’s all oral and you have to invite panel to it. I had to reschedule mine because of migraine. So that was a real like, “Oh, this is real, everyone.” I’m so proud of my degree and that experience and that I did it because a lot of those experiences and connections have led me in my career. And two, I’m so proud that I published two books. It has been a lifelong dream of mine. Getting to meet writers and talk to people who have read them, adults and kids alike has just been… I’m really proud of myself. I feel OK saying that. It’s weird, right? Yeah, I did it. But I did it. I did the damn thing.

Ashley Kristoff 

I’m proud of you for those things. And I’m also proud of you for being proud of you. Because yes, that is a hard place to be in sometimes and to see your own value.

Skye Gailing 

Yeah, I was about to say that’s huge Like Ashley said, especially great that you’re able to see like how incredible you are too. Yeah, talking about ourselves in a positive way. That’s weird. I just got sweaty.

Kat Harrison 

We don’t do that a lot on our season, so this is like, you know, a whole different taste of medicine. In a good way.

Skye Gailing 

Yeah.  And it’s funny because I’m like, “Oh, yeah, I’m proud of myself for like, school things.” But then I’m like, “Well, I left grad school because of chronic illness in part like, blah blah blah blah blah.” So trying to think of only the positive? I’m really proud that I’ve been working here, I guess for over a year now. And that’s honestly the longest I’ve ever had a job aside from, you know, work study in college. So that’s been pretty big. But yeah, I’d say also, like the college degree thing… I was not kind to my body — I was up for way too many hours all the time, taking on too many classes. But I did accomplish one of the major goals I had set out for myself. And that was really nice. So I’m proud of making it through that. And those things are where people I think, don’t see how much work goes into like any academic program in general. But there is, yes, the baseline work. But then when you have illness on top of it, it’s so hard to keep up with others and my bachelor’s. Yeah, it’s something I’m proud of.

Ashley Kristoff 

I mean, it’s almost like you’re taking additional classes — you have a full course of whatever your semester is, but then it’s like, I also take four credits in migraine and you know, however many and whatever. So I think there’s a way to think about it in that way that shows like “Yeah, this is the amount of work that it takes just for this thing, which is separate from this huge part of my life, which takes a lot of things.” I love those accomplishments. And I’m very proud of you. I’m proud of both of you. And I am very proud of this Mighty With Migraine season that you both are co-hosting, so I’d love to talk a little bit about that. And I know you both are experts in migraine, and have over a decade each for migraine experience. But are there new things that you learned about migraine since starting this podcast?

Kat Harrison 

I think this is my favorite part of doing the podcast aside from getting to spend so much valuable time with Skye and our producer, Camara. I have learned so much from our guests, from Skye’s experience. The two things that stand out to me is that I had never heard the term “bridge therapy” before until we had our third episode, which is on migraine treatments. And I found out, I’ve had a lot of bridge therapies — which basically means it’s not a preventive, so it’s not something you do daily. And it’s not abortive, like you have an attack and you do it right then. It’s that in-between stage of treating the disease. So things like nerve blocks, things like infusions, things like that, that kind of come in the middle. I had never heard that term. Had you Skye? I don’t think you had.

Skye Gailing 

No absolutely. And I had just actually finished a course of steroids that was serving as a bridge therapy. No idea it was called that.

Kat Harrison 

And then I think the other thing I learned — our work episode is so fire everyone, I can’t wait for you to hear it — I learned a term which I very much relate to which is called “presenteeism,” which relates specifically to the workplace. Basically, it means that showing up to work takes priority over taking care of yourself. So it’s like this concept of “I am present at work, but I am not fully myself because of illness.” And I think about so many daysm the energy it’s taking me to even record this podcast — I’m pushing and pushing and pushing to get it done. It is presenteeism. I’m here, but I’m not really here. And that was an incredibly eye-opening theme and term for me to learn.

Skye Gailing 

Yeah, that concept blew my mind. Because I mean, I think we’ve all said at some point, like, “oh, I’m here, but I’m not here” like speaking back to like undergrad, things I remember feeling that way in class all the time. I had no idea it was called “presenteeism.”

Ashley Kristoff 

I don’t think I’ve ever heard that term before. But I feel like I could have just said that ahead of us starting to record today. Because that’s what I kind of had said is like, “I just like I feel a little out of it. But I’m showing up and this is like a thing that I’m going to do. And I’m going to do my best and I’m showing up.” But boy do I want to just — if it was not storming right now — I’d literally go outside and just like stare at the sun. But that is the opposite of what I can do in a storm. Because I feel like I need that kind of like disconnect and break from being in front of things. So, you also blew my mind with that term, thank you.

Skye Gailing 

I know — it’s relatable and it’s wild when there’s a word for it. And I also want to say I experienced so much validation also during our third [episode], I mean during the whole series, but during our third episode the neurologist/headache specialist, she broke down the definition of like chronic migraine just so beautifully, like in a way that Kat and I were like, “Oh, that’s really what it is in like the simplest terms.” Like when I was saying earlier, you know, eight of the 15-plus headache days you have migraine features. So it turns out I’ve been living with what would qualify as chronic migraine for years and I had no idea. I was like “Yeah, I just have like migraine migraines. I’m in between. I don’t have it that bad.” Which… please don’t compare yourself to others. Nobody wins in that way. But yeah, it validated a lot of what I was experiencing and having somebody who was not my doctor, just a guest on a podcast, validate what I’m going through in that way was really special. It was also neat, a different headache specialist on our stigma episode touched on the history of migraine, you know, going back thousands of years. Ancient civilizations talking about headache, talking about differentiating different types of head pain too. Oh, man, I could have talked about that for hours. But yeah, it was really interesting.

Ashley Kristoff 

I want to just touch on that comparison point really quick. I think it’s really interesting. I was actually listening to a podcast yesterday where someone had said, “comparison is the thief of joy.” And it’s really stuck in my brain since then. I think it’s so true.

Kat Harrison 

It’s one of my favorite sayings. That’s, honestly, kind of my migraine mantra, because I could compare myself all day long to others. And I never feel good afterward. It gets me nowhere. So, yeah.

Skye Gailing 

Was about to say… my therapist over the past week gave me an assignment to take note of every time I compare myself to others. Not just on social media, but just when I’m thinking by myself, reflect on how I feel. (Spoiler alert: doesn’t feel good, and it takes up a lot of my time.)

Ashley Kristoff 

Yeah, I think about that a lot. I like to make art and share art a lot. And so I will find people who inspire me, but I also find myself dipping in the “I wish I could do things like that.” And I know we’re very different. And like, I’ve tried to reckon that with myself and it’s not always the easiest thing to do.

Skye Gailing 

No, it’s hard. We actually, I know Kat and I have been talking about migraine and everything, but Ashley, could we turn the tables on you real quick? We were wondering what you’ve learned about migraine as you produce and like project manage this whole podcast.

Ashley Kristoff 

For sure. A peek behind the curtain for our audience here: I help oversee this series, you know, develop and take place. And so while I haven’t been in the recording studio with everyone, I’ve helped pull all the pieces together. Honestly, the main thing is — this is kind of feels like a cop out, but I promise it’s not — I’m just very thankful I have like a much stronger baseline knowledge about migraine now. I feel like, you know like I said, I’m someone who very briefly experienced migraine in my life. I do have family members — I don’t know if my close family member has episodic or chronic migraine, because we haven’t talked about it to that extent — but, it’s something that’s pretty prevalent in parts of my family. I very much knew that it was more than just a headache. I knew that it was more than just pain in some cases, but I feel like I didn’t really grasp or understand what it actually then was. And I feel like just through even going through the topics and just seeing the outlining process, like there’s just so much more baseline knowledge that I feel a lot more comfortable, like navigating a general conversation around it. When I think prior to this, I probably wouldn’t and I would just pass any question on to somebody who I knew had a lot more knowledge about it than me.

Kat Harrison 

That makes me so happy.

Ashley Kristoff 

That’s just something that brings me joy in general — learning a lot more about things, especially things that are really impacting people’s like, lens of life, because you do view your life through your condition if it is impacting it. Well, thank you for asking me a question. But we’re gonna still go back to you anyways. That being said, there are 12 episodes in this season. They all vary among different topics. In all reality, we had more than 12 topics, but I am curious of the 12 episodes that have been recorded: What were you most excited about when you were developing the themes, and after you had recorded did that change? Was there another episode that really struck you out of the blue as like an amazing moment that you weren’t expecting?

Kat Harrison 

I will say — and Skye and I probably have a similar answer because we’re both really passionate about the intersection of migraine and mental health — but I couldn’t wait to talk about chronic pain and suicidality. It is a topic that I’m super passionate about. The statistics around people who die by suicide because of chronic pain are staggering. And that is not something we talk about with migraine especially, so I was really excited about that. But our neurologists blew me away. You know, we think about health care providers and sometimes they can be chalked up to be dry or not really have a good bedside manner and they were just so human, and so compassionate. Most have had personal experience with migraine and our work episode, the neurologist talked about how her mom lived with migraine her entire life. They didn’t have a name for it, but the sound of a watch ticking was such a trigger that it like upended their entire life. And that small detail of the season will stick with me. What about you, Skye?

Skye Gailing 

Yeah, I mean, I do have a similar opinion. I was also very excited for the migraine and mental health episode and I’m still excited for people to listen to it, don’t get me wrong. But it made me a lot more emotional than I had anticipated. And I feel like that happens with each episode. I feel like each episode has its own little special, like emotional pocket with me now. I was also just pleasantly surprised by all of our guests’ willingness to share, like not only their expertise, but also their personal experience with migraine. I can’t think of a time when I’ve ever spoken with like a health care provider who was willing to be so vulnerable, it was really refreshing to see. And I’m not going to become, you know, fully optimistic about the field of migraine research overnight. But speaking to the providers and advocates that were guests on the podcast have definitely given me more hope for migraine research and treatment than I had before we started recording the series.

Ashley Kristoff 

I love that your perspective changed too. And I also love that you were both very much interested in that mental health component because we will shout to anyone who will ever hear us: Mental health and physical health are very much connected, and you can’t separate them in any sense. So, in your opinion, what do you think that the most important message people take away from listening to this season about migraine?

Kat Harrison 

I think it’s exactly what you touched on earlier, Ashley, which is the concept of migraine touches every single aspect of your life. It doesn’t matter that you don’t live with chronic migraine. If you live with episodic, that means you’re constantly living in fear of if an attack might hit, and having to plan your life around it and the spontaneous nature. Each episode of the podcast focuses on one kind of facet of migraine, and we did not get to touch on every single facet we wanted to. It’s everywhere. It is part of your identity, whether or not you actually feel that way. So that I hope is someone’s biggest takeaway.

Skye Gailing 

Yeah. And it’s important, I think, for people to realize, and I think they’ll see it throughout the show that migraine is a dynamic condition. Just because you know, you’ve experienced it this one way doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way forever. And also, like we were saying, it doesn’t help to compare two people’s experiences with migraine. The condition varies greatly in terms of how people experience it, and what symptoms they may have and how it affects their lives. I think it’s important to recognize that each individual has an individual experience with this condition that can change over time.

Ashley Kristoff 

I love that. Last question about the podcast: Who is this meant for? Who is going to get value out of listening to this season?

Kat Harrison 

It’s like the most cliché answer to say “everyone,” but I will be more detailed. Probably the primary audience is for people that live with migraine specifically, because I think there’s a lot of validation to be had. And also, you know, Skye and I have lived it for a long time and learned a lot, too. So I think that’s the main audience. But I think anyone with a chronic pain condition or chronic illness will absolutely find value in it. And then, like Ashley said, I think there is still a lot to offer people who know someone with migraine, have never met someone with migraine who loves taking a deep dive into a specific health condition. It’s for all three of those groups.

Ashley Kristoff 

You too will get value out of this podcast season. So please listen.

Kat Harrison 

Thank you for that.

Ashley Kristoff 

Alright, so before we wrap up our episode here, let’s go into our Self-Care Corner where we share a little bit about self-care practices that have been helpful to us recently. Who wants to start?

Kat Harrison 

Go ahead, Skye.

Skye Gailing 

Something that I have had to acknowledge is that going to bed at a regular time and waking up at a semi-consistent time… it’s good for you. You know, who knew that that thing everybody tells us about having a bedtime as an adult, that’s the right thing to do. It’s been super helpful. I recently connected that the sleep medication I take might be triggering some migraine attacks, or might be worsening my symptoms. So I’ve been having to do a lot of experimentation with sleep, but the best thing I can do is have a consistent bedtime. I did not do that last night, and I’m paying for it dearly today.

Ashley Kristoff 

That’s very, very relatable.

Kat Harrison 

I would say for me… this really all stems from like six months ago, I had emergency surgery where I actually had part of my skull removed and my entire ear reconstructed. And the recovery has been so hard, probably the hardest surgical recovery I’ve ever had. And I’ve had 15 of them, people. So this is like not my first, you know, time running this baseball diamond. Because of it, I did not move my body for a very long time. And yoga is, as clichéd at it is, absolutely one of my favorite ways to move my body. Mostly because it really helps my anxiety as well. I hold a lot of tension in my hips, which always feel so good. But I have hit a mental roadblock of me believing that I have to do a full-hour class in order to classify it as movement. And a couple of months ago, I discovered a positive of the pandemic — and I say that obviously in a certain way — but I discovered that so many yoga teachers, they put short little 10- to15-minute yoga classes on YouTube, and I do it every day now. So even though it’s not a full class, it’s the first thing I do when I wake up and it’s made a huge difference. And then the other item which I will say is self-care everyone, I discovered Biofreeze patches and they’re life-changing. So, go get yourself some if you need them.

Ashley Kristoff 

#Influencer Kat, she’s just gonna give us all of the… if y’all don’t know, she’s very much a Headache Hat influencer for people on our staff along with people outside of our staff — she has a good track record of recommendations. That being said, for myself, I’ve actually pulled out a whiteboard recently, which has actually been a really good form of self-care for me. I’ve had just so much going on. I mean, really, in every facet of my life, but really, my personal life has been a lot more hectic than I am typically used to. And so I honestly was just like, “I can’t keep all this in my head anymore.” And I grabbed a whiteboard and started making like a daily list that’s separate from where I usually house all my stuff, because I was getting very overwhelmed because my to-do lists were all looking too long. And because of that I was just completely overwhelmed by starting any of them. And so this week in particular, I’ve been taking a whiteboard and I erase it at the start of each day — anything that was not done yesterday gets pulled over. And then the things that I have to do that day are on it. And that’s it, and it gives me something to focus on. And I felt like a lot more in control of my life this week, which has been definitely a struggle the past like five, six weeks.

Kat Harrison 

Proud of you.

Ashley Kristoff 

Thanks! The last thing we like to do is our Cheer Me On section what made you feel Mighty this week. So, Kat, let’s start with you.

Kat Harrison 

It’s not very sexy. But I spent so much time on the phone with my hospital — which is where all of my specialists are through — and through a lot of emails to finally get all of my medical records over the past six months to my neurologist, and I’m so proud. It’s not that I’ve been putting it off, but I’ve been ghosted by certain specialists for a very long time. And the fact that I was like, “It doesn’t matter if I’m not getting something done for work. I’m making this phone call. I’m getting the records there.” And I did it, everyone. I’m Mighty.

Skye Gailing 

Look at that prioritization. Ooh.

Kat Harrison 

I know.

Skye Gailing 

That is very impressive. Speaking of medical things, I had my first annual physical in a long time because sometimes we experience traumatic experiences in medical fields and visits and we put things off and then all of a sudden a problem comes up that is not related to a chronic illness. So, you gotta get that checked out. So I did, and it was OK, I still need to get the blood tests from it though, but it happened. I also challenged myself in therapy this morning, so it was a week of challenging, but overall good, appointments.

Ashley Kristoff 

Yeah, I definitely relate to putting off that appointment that I know I need to [schedule] until it becomes a necessity, so I am proud of you for having done that. This week, I feel like this is a little bit in alignment with my Self-Care Corner answer, but I just actually made time for myself this week. In reality it was, you know, I moved, I bought a house like six weeks ago now at this point. And it’s just been very wild for those six weeks but obviously longer than that, and so I really fell off of my normal day-to-day how I show up for myself, which helps kind of keep me level and grounded. So this was the first week where I like I woke up in the morning and I exercised most of the week —I have not been able to do it more than one day in a row for a couple of weeks. I just have been miserable the whole time I’ve done it, don’t get me wrong, but I know it helps me a lot. So I think really just pushing through the dislike of what I’m doing in the effort of actually helping myself out made me feel…

Skye Gailing 

Yay!

Ashley Kristoff 

…very Mighty this week.

Skye Gailing 

Look at you go!

Kat Harrion
Way to go!

Ashley Kristoff 

How can folks listen to Health and (un)Wellness and the first season, Mighty With Migraine?

Kat Harrison 

Well, everyone, you can find it on Spotify, you can find it on Apple Podcasts. I believe you can also find it… what’s it called, Skye? Pocket Casts?

Skye Gailing 

Oh, you can be a cool kid like me and download the RSS feed and put it in the pod catcher of your choice. Shout out to Pocket Casts, that’s mine.

Ashley Kristoff 

Fantastic. Are there any resources or things that you would like to share with our audience today?

Kat Harrison 

Well, Skye and I are the biggest fan girls of the American Migraine Foundation, probably one of the best places to go to read up-to-date research. They have so many different advocacy-type programs and resources for people you love or yourself as well. They have great questions to ask your provider — so much good stuff there. I also recommend IHS-GPAC so that’s G-P-A-C… very long acronym, but it’s great. They’re focused specifically on migraine and work and talking about that intersection. And then my books if you want them, “Migraine and Mia” and “Surgery on Sunday,” can really be found anywhere that books are sold and I sell signed copies on my website, KatWritesForYou.com.

Skye Gailing 

Highly recommend both books. I’m a big fan.

Kat Harrison 

Oh, thanks Skye. You’re my new publicist behind my dad, who by the way is like the best publicists ever. When I was in the hospital, Ashley, he literally told every single medical professional that I wrote books, and then he showed them on his phone on Amazon. So thanks, Dad.

Ashley Kristoff 

I didn’t know this butthis brings me a lot of joy. Thank you guys for joining me and talking about your experience with migraine along with talking a little bit more about this new podcast series. Thank you, Kat. Thank you, Skye. Thank you for joining us today.

Kat Harrison 

Thank you for having us, Ashley. It was really fun to be guests and not hosts!

Skye Gailing 

It was. Thank you so much for having us! This is wonderful.

Ashley Kristoff 

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Mighty Podcast. If you want to continue this conversation, head over to TheMighty.com or download The Mighty app to become part of our community. You can find The Mighty Podcast along with our other podcasts, Table Talk With The Mighty and Health & (un)Wellness’ first season, Mighty With Migraine, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and The Mighty. Be sure to rate and review all of our podcasts on your favorite platform. Join us on our next episode and stay Mighty.